We have heard often, on the one hand, the uncomfortable questions of the disillusioned: "What's the point of this life that is going to end one day?", "Why is life such an ephemera that confounds us?", etc., and on the other hand, fairy tales and mythological legends of certain blessed people who by their virtue and some good deed attain immortality.
My question is, would you want to live forever? Let us assume that there is some way for you to stay alive forever. I don't want to say too much here, lest it should bias the reader. The rest of the imagination is upto the reader... [And living forever, by definition means you live forever independent of other things, such as the life of the earth, or the availability of resources]. You can go as far as you want with your imagination. Potentially you could be continuously adapting to your environment as necessary, since without adaptation survival is not possible.
What is the picture you see when you imagine this? Do you like what you see...? Please do share.
"How did humans get to life?"
9 years ago
12 comments:
The whole notion of immortality in itself is a human perception of the beginning and end of life. The "human life" aspect can just be a blimp on the space of an entity. Just as over a period of time in our "lives" we play varying roles and then step out of it, it is very much possible that "human life" is
There are ways we stop doing something .. like when u are playing and ur parents shout, u abruptly end ... or in other cases like retirement, where you plan.
Same can be true for human life.. When that entity which is now donning the role of human life has an emergency, it may quit or it can plan itself to a more organized exit. Now from our platform of observation it is almost impossible to predict this role change and it always sudden .. the exit I mean. However this suddeness itself is relative. What is sudden to us could be a calm well thought out exit strategy for this entity..
Ideas inspired from Cancelled - South Park and the brand new testament to life : The Hitchhikers Guide To Galaxy...
Hey, thanks for sharing! That is true and very interesting. Of course if you ask an ardent believer of Hinduism they're going to say something along similar lines; that you are not born, you never die, etc. (which is the essence of chapter 2 in the Bhagavad Geeta).
But I actually meant living forever as "you", (as you recognize yourself today). You might have existed forever, but yout memory doesn't go past before your birth in the current life AND certain people (your parents and others) saw when you came to earth, taking the form of "you". These two things (memory and other people's knowledge of a certain event marking the beginning of your life), kind of indicate that it is something new/different for you, even if your "soul" or whatever, might have existed before. In fact, given the nature of human memory, you often don't remember anything before you were 4 years old. If you try hard you can recollect incidents from when you were 4. This is the main reason we find it difficult to accept and believe that we have been around forever and will never perish - because we have no memory of it, and therefore no evidence.
Probably that's exactly how it would be for a person living forever (as per my definition). They live so long that at any point of time they only have a recollection of the past 60 years of their life or so (assuming they are not adapted to increase their memory to scale the longevity... but how can you scale upto infinity anyway....)
And to clarify, you live infinitely in only one direction of the time axis (towards future), not the other way (as per question). This means, if we assume that our life started at the point when we were physically born in this life, as per usual interpretation, would you want to live forever (in the future). SO alteat we have a well-defined starting point. :)
Good question! Here are my thoughts - I would not want to be immortal. For various reasons. 1) We associate immortality with existing as we are.But that is probably not the deal. The idea of a long life appeals to us, but that of getting old doesnt. (Also, we'd have to put in effrt to remain healthy, beautful, active for eternity... since we'll have to preserve our organic forms for eternity!) 2) My existence does not consist only of my life and youth. I am defined by my relationships too. By those around me, those I love, those who know me and those I know. Would they all be immortal? If not, then will I not feel displaced even if the process is gradual? 3) Part of the beauty of life as a learning will be lost. Eventually I will get to know a lot about a lot, and will be more knowledgeable than my 'younger' fellow beings. Umm... that makes for boring :) 4) I watched a very beautiful Marathi play a few years back. The gist was that there were 7 sarpas (sarpas are the physician creed in Hindu mythology) who create 'Amrut' and partake of it before handing it to the devas. These 7 sarpas are in human form and they become immortal. They are happy for the first 500 years, after which they become weary of life. Having been there, done that, they are tired of their existence inspite of it being healthy and all that. They move to different land masse,reproduce and create different continents. They then have to face the woes of their offspring, having to see what they ir descendants turn themselves into. Ultimately, they start trying to destroy themselves in vain. They are then left waiting for that one day when the devas will take pity on them and give them the hemlock that will finally put them to rest. So, all in all, it was a very interesting story. It's like the adage 'Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it'. So no, immortality is not very appealing to me. In fact, I would wish that I 'd go before I have to witness the passing of the ones I love most... but guess life doesnt make it that easy.
My take - just simply - Moments can be as immortal as they want to be... without being connected to any dimension. And us experiencing those moments can take us into infinity & immortality. And all other dimensions diminish in meaning.
The eternal question I have always had in my mind after I saw the first death as a young child was "what happens to the person who has lived for some amount of time here?".
The whole concept of immortality is something that is relative in space and time. Something that has existed forever is immortal to us. But what if when I am writing this sentence, that a few million relative years has passed for some other form of being?
To me our existence is just a mere set of dimensions that we acquired when we came here. Well after death the person might just go on to another set of dimensions and so on.
Interesting answers so far!
My thoughts: I guess living forever takes away almost every element of our being and life itself as we know it today. Perhaps it would make ambition, hope, curiosity and desire meaningless or non-existent.
Now there are some possibilities: 1. only I am immortal. 2. everyone is immortal 3. a chosen few are immortal. 2 would be the best option in my opinion, unless 3 includes everyone in my web of relationships so that I don't stay on forever losing loved ones infinitely. In the event that I and everyone I know lives forever, unless memory is adapted to an astronomical degree, I would probably not relate to myself the way I was x years back, like say 200 years back and I'd probably only have pictures and such as evidence that I existed x years back since I would have no recollection of it. This would make living infinitely quite meaningless.
Perhaps to cope with boredom and frustration, we'd adapt ourselves to be completely intellectual and lose all emotions. We would probably learn a lot more about the universe but would have so much knowledge that (unless again, we are super-adapted),we wouldn't be able to use all of the information and knowledge in a cogent manner to come up with the answer to the single question that would matter: "What is the meaning of life, the universe and everything?" Since nothing would be time bound, the time dimension would be irrelevant. SO all immortal beings would probably be working only towards answering that question. But then if they do find the answer to that, what after that? They just continue living....! So no, probably nobody would have the motivation to find out the answer. So there goes curiosty, out the window. Probably what will be left of us is: 1. our physical instincts, which would be so well understood and well developed that the world would be a hedonistic playground, and 2. our extremely developed analytical reasoning powers, given the amount of knowledge and experience, and this would make us extremely good at surviving. By surviving, I don't mean literally, for, what motivation does one who has no choice but to live forever have to fight for his survival? But what I mean is fighting for what one wants. And these necessities would be simple biological necessities to keep our bodies comfortable, since other desires would all be dormant at first, and then dead.
Imagining immortality is interesting because we find it difficult to come to terms with our lives ending some day, but don't necessarily imagine what it would have been like alternately. Life the way it is, is perhaps the best choice for the cosmic design. I cannot imagine it being different. It may be my limitation and bias because of the way the universe currently works, but I cannot imagine it to be any other way. However, it still makes the point of life and living seem hollow and unsolvable. Given that our lives will some day end, are we supposed to fulfill a purpose before we go? The finiteness of life makes this question more pertinent.
To digress just a little bit, following lightrain's comment about wishing that you go before you lose your loved ones, I have often wondered what true love is: wishing that you die first or wishing that the other person dies first? In a relationship in which two people love each other immensely, is it selfish to wish that you die first, leaving behind a suffering person?
I guess it depends on the point of view. According to Hindu philosophy (and also intuitively, IMHO), your consciousness is eternal, so immortality in itself refers to a state of ever-new joy. It's a point of view, since the underlying continuity of consciousness across transmigrations of the soul is taken for granted. I would prefer to live sufficiently long in this body to learn lessons and develop myself in such a way that I'd have a better next life. However, the very fact of memory of past lifetimes being erased (except in the unconscious) is perhaps designed to make things less boring. Imagine if everyone were to remember all their past lifetimes!! That would make everyone bored to death and wanting to escape into realms where they are not prisoners of their memory. It's almost like immortality within the same body. So I'd prefer to respect the laws of nature and live a full life, and leave my body satisfied with my progress in this lifetime in preparation for the next. Having said that, coming to my earlier statement about immortality being a state of continuous ever-new joy. There are some beings who are supposed to be immortal in their earthly bodies - amongst them Mahavatar Babaji, Sage Vasishtha, Lord Hanuman and Ashwatthama. Ashwatthama's state is considered worse than the immortality that a normal healthy person would've attained, whereas that of the other entities mentioned is supremely blissful even though they live immortal lives on earth. So it has more to do with your state of evolution than the actual dimension of existence. Since I'm not evolved enough to experience ever-new joy and constant bliss through an immortal body, I'd prefer to give up this body when the time comes. If I were evolved enough, there would be no choice - there would only be a command to be followed. It is when one becomes sufficiently evolved that one's supposed free will is no longer "free", in the sense that its identity with divine will is realised.
I have something more to add. I've had the good fortune of interacting personally with and getting to know about certain contemporaries who are probably in the evolved state that I wrote about in my last post. I guess they wouldn't have too much of an issue with being immortal, because they are attached to nobody. Due to this, while death of dear ones might cause them temporary pain, they are not affected by these things internally, unlike the rest of us. They carry on about their lives as usual. They love people genuinely, but have no attachment or clinging, which frees them from the fetters of emotional trauma of losing loved ones. I wouldn't mind being immortal if I were in their place. Then again, if i were in their place, it would only be a command, not a desire. If I could be in their state where I could choose which desires I'd like to entertain and which I'd like to give up at will, what's wrong with immortality in that case? They would probably even have access to departed ones if required, so the sense of loss would not be as great as it is for the rest of us. Beyond a certain stage in yoga, it becomes possible to leave your body at will, roam about in the astral or causal dimensions, and return to your body. It is the same as dying, except that you can return to your living body any time you want, provided of course the body is well protected from destruction - it doesn't decompose on its own, though.
Dev, yeah that's an interesting and a familiar train of ideas. Read about it years back in lessons from YSS, Ranchi and the likes.
Immortality! - Yikes - scary proposition - I dont know what to do with the rest of my current life expectancy.
-V
LOL! You conveyed a lot in 1 sentence - which many of us here have conveyed in paragraphs. :)
Hi Sumi,
All my opinions are subject to change (without notice). LOL
I quote the lines of a favorite blogger of mine:
Yes the shelf life of my own opinion is somewhere between 3 seconds to 3 months, especially when it is about life and its meaning! :)
-V
PS: (I now recall) I have visited your music blog much earlier, at which time the Cyber Diaries blog wasn't started.
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